Tuesday, November 24, 2009

My Comments

By August, Glock had had my G36 longer than I did. During this period I met other G36 owners. Some had defective pistols with the same malfunction, and many others never had an issue. Also, I spoke with several members of Glock's Technical Services during this issue, and every single one was helpful and interested in making things right - up until the end.

It was the numerous delays, Glock's organizational arrogance, and the discovery that other G36 owners were experiencing the same malfunctions and indifference that pushed me to file the lawsuit.

Delays:

I made 11 of the 15 total phone calls to get status during the last 6 months. Eight times I left a message - seven of which were not returned.

Arrogance of the Organization:

If it says "meets factory specs", then there is nothing to talk about.

In the numerous discussions with Glock it was said that either ammo, grip tightness and/or magazines could be the reason for the malfunctions.


  • Ammo. My G36 malfunctioned on three of the four brands fired. Remington UMC, Winchester White Box and Blazer Brass all had the exact same malfunction. The brand that did not jam was Corbon 230g +P. At over $1.50 per round, only 20 rounds of Corbon was tested.
  • Grip Tightness. Or "limp wristing" as others call it. The photos and the video clip above are proof this cannot be the cause. In this malfunction the slide goes back all the way.  By definition, a malfunction caused by a less-than tight grip would show the slide failing to go back all the way. A malfunction caused by "limp-wristing" can be cleared with a 'tap-rack' procedure, whereas this G36 malfunction cannot be cleared with a tap-rack as the slide is fully back. To explain it another way, grip tightness does not cause an extractor to let go of the spent casing before the casing has fully exited the chamber.
  • Magazines. I used new factory magazines. I now have a total of 14 between those I've purchased and the free magazines Glock shipped back to me with the gun.
  • Glock Website. If the G36 requires certain ammo or a different type of grip, why doesn't it say this on their website? Here are screen shots from August of the G36 main page, and the G36 technical page. It appears Glock is marketing these weapons the same as their other models - yet Glock Technical Services suggested I stay away from certain brands of ammo and modify my grip. One could also note that the same grip and 'bad' ammo resulted in a 97% success rate.
  • How Many Test Rounds? Call me picky here, but with everything else mentioned above, the number of rounds fired by Glock adds to my complaints of poor service. Did Glock fire 200 rounds as Fred promised on February 22? Or did they shoot 250 rounds as Jonathan said in his June 26 call? Or did Glock shoot 300 rounds through my G36 as Doug, the Technical Services Manager, said on July 13? Or, did Glock fire 350 rounds "without malfunctions" as Carlos Guevara's September 16 Response to Plaintiffs Statement of Claim states. Or, did Glock shoot 500 rounds as Carlos Guevara and Jonathan both stated in court? This was during the Spring/Summer of 2009 when I could not find .45 ACP ammo anywhere, and the rumors were that 50 rounds were priced at $30 or more when found. So Glock shot $300 in ammo, during an ammo shortage, to prove my G36 is functional when it is known that their cost of providing a replacement pistol is close to half that?


GlockTalk is an Internet Forum frequented by gun-enthusiasts. My G36 woes led to my joining GlockTalk. I discovered others who were experiencing the exact same malfunction and same frustrations with Glock. I prepared comments they had written in the forum, and in some cases their testimonials for this lawsuit. It was later that I learned the only witnesses allowed were those who attend in person.

Of all those owners of defective G36s I spoke with, only one had a favorable resolution. All the others either sold their G36s, took them back for a refund or trade, or tossed it into the back of their safe. Many tried to work with Glock but experienced the same "meets factory specs" disappointment. The one gentleman who resolved his G36 issue: he bought a 2nd G36 which has worked fine for him.

Others have suggested, and I tend to agree - Glock deserves a class-action suit over its continued production of a product with a high defect rate and its continued refusal to replace defective G36s. I'd rather Glock make it right for those with bad G36s than see lawyers make $$ off of an otherwise deeply respected and appreciated company.

Specifically, Glock should post a notice on their website that explains the specific G36 malfunction and the company's offer to replace defective G36s, including those out of warranty, with either a new G36 or a new Glock pistol of the consumer's choice. The resulting bruised corporate image and costly recall pales in comparison to the legal and public relations disaster that would be caused from the death of an off-duty police officer who, while under fire, had to remove a magazine, clear the action, replace the magazine, chamber a round, then get back into the fight.

The obvious current strategy at Glock is to wait-out those with problems and stick to the "meets factory specs" line. By the time I received my G36 back in August, I was out of the warranty coverage. How many G36 owners are willing to travel to Atlanta for a small claims case that they may or may not win, and if so, be awarded only a portion of their total G36-related costs? For example: the judgement did not include reimbursement for the night sites, magazines, G36-only holster, the Bladetech mag/flashlight carrier, the shipping expenses I paid, or my travel expenses. In the end, my total loss was equivilent to throwing the G36 in the trash the day I bought it.

After the case was heard, but before a judgement was rendered, Carlos Guevara told me he would replace my G36 with another model "regardless of the outcome of the case". He said it was Glock's way to "keep a good customer". This was a generous offer! I wrote him the next day to take him up on this offer and gave him my requested model and local FFL dealer's address. I will update this site with news of this transfer.

I decided to make the switch from 9mm to .45ACP in 2008. The main reason was that I owned all the 9mm pistols I ever wanted, yet I was ready to add to my collection. While buying 1911 model .45s was the goal, any switch to a new caliber meant my first purchase would be the ultra-reliable Glock brand followed later by some cool 1911's. I bought two Glock .45s: a Model 30SF in May 2008, then this Model 36 in June. Both were defective. The 30SF had a defective trigger bar that took Glock 12 weeks to replace in the summer of 2009. It now works perfect. I started buying 1911's in 2009 and currently have three, a Kimber, a Colt and a Sig, all of which work perfect.

The intent behind this site is not to smear my favorite gun maker, Glock, nor the many helpful and best-intentioned Glock employees I've come in contact with during this issue. Instead, like the lawsuit, this site was motivated by the 8-month timeline with no resolution, and by those with similar stories. I hope this information helps other G36 owners and those considering a G36 purchase.

My advice for buyers of new or used G36's:  Put 100 rounds through it before you pay.


UPDATE Dec. 2, 2009:

Corporate Counsel Carlos Guevara called me to ask me which option I wanted: the replacement gun or the award from the lawsuit. It turns out his offer to replace the gun "regardless of the outcome of the case" had some fine print. I could replace the gun with a new Glock pistol, OR get the award ordered by the judge. My mistake. When I told him that I'll take the check, he then said he'd send me a fedex slip for me to return the G36. I told him that was not part of the judge's order and that I will have to sell it to recover more of the damages.


UPDATE Dec. 11, 2009:

Check received.  323 days.


UPDATE Dec. 28, 2009:

G36 Sold to GlockTalk member John.  John intends to do a full analysis and investigation.  He is planning at least three phases: 1) validate the above malfunction with a couple shooters and same ammo, 2) expand number of shooters and test other brands of ammo, and 3) attempt to isolate the cause and fix. His full report will be posted below in coming weeks.  Thanks John!



Comments are enabled below.

74 comments:

  1. Ok, I do understand your point. Yet I'm torn because any Glock I've owned has been flawless.

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  2. wow, what a joke when they wouldn't even give you a new gun to keep a customer. I have a g23 and g19, but they have had the kinks worked out. thanks.

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  3. You seemed to keep a level head during this BS. I am glad you are sharing your story and Glock should have taken better care of your problems. I hope the Glock management learns it is best too take of all customers instead of just large contracts. It seems like only the pre-sf double-stack .45 are Glocks only reliable .45acp.

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  4. Good for you for holding the manufacturer accountable. Too few people these days would probably try to "unload" the gun in a classifieds section of their favorite gun forum- I'm glad you kept your wits and followed through. Best of luck to you in your future gun purchases. I own 3 glocks and have had zero problems- this will make me thing twice about buying another though. Good customer service is hard to find these days- and EVERY bit as valuable as the product you are buying!!!!

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  5. Thank you for handling it the way you did which was exemplary. Too many times, a consumer will (as you said) sell a defective product off or toss it in the safe & forget it. Both encourage big companies to continue doing what they're doing. For what it's worth, I have 6 Glocks - 17, two 21's, 22, 31, 34. I started keeping track of round through them 13 years ago. 5,800 rounds to date & I've never had a malfunction. But - I haven't purchased a new Glock recently.

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  6. Brilliant,I could not have said it better myself.
    I ditched mine after it came back from the factory with the same letter you recieved.
    Too many problems reported on the G36 from various sources.
    Now.I have gotten back to 1911's.For some reason.I always end up back where I started!

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  7. i thnk the choices of crappy lowend ammo might be the source of your problem ...
    esp the rem-umc and the wwb... both are as bad as wolf , just not as dirty...
    shot 1000s of rounds thru the glocks i've owned with no problems , but i never fed them cheapazz underpowered ammo ...

    not a fanboy of glock , but they do tend to work as well as anything else when fed decent ammo...

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  8. If the gun isn't the problem, then why isn't anybody taking me up on the offer to buy this pistol and accessories for a savings of $600?

    This site was meant to warn others of a high defect rate with this model.

    It is serving another purpose - exposing critics who pass on on the offer to buy $1100 of product for $500. Remember, it "meets factory specs".

    To the commenter above - If there is nothing wrong with this pistol, why aren't you jumping at this offer?

    Chris

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  9. ah , very simply because i have 2 perfectly functional H&K's in 40S&W...
    now had i been in the market for a compact 45 things might be different ...
    i really have no need for the glock , didn't even see your offer to sell out...
    still , i remember my 1st gen glocks functioned perfectly even with lead reloads and never a problem...
    i hope what ever works for you , works...
    blazer brass is the cheapest ammo i will shoot for practice , umc/wwb/wolf etc are crap afaic...

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  10. To translate, "I'm a snob troll who should shut my trap"

    :)

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  11. that was uncalled for ... if you're equating H&K with snobbery then you're way off base , i just bought a very 'prole' mossberg for my xmas present this am...
    i have wondered for years about all the ;kbooms' , i have personally seen 5 ..
    a 9mm , 2 40S&W's , a 357sig , a 10mm and a 45 acp that was in 5 BIG pieces !...
    that alone should be enough to make anyone wonder if something isn't wrong somewhere...

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  12. I don't really know where you're getting the $1100 figure.. apparently you're really proud of that setup you've got there but at tops I could see it really costing around $900. You already admitted you didn't even pay for quite a few of the mags that you're wanting to now charge top dollar for. Obviously you're not going to sell a gun for what it cost new, and there's no way any person in their right mind would pay more than 50% for a bunch of used mags and a gun that the owner admits has problems. You're not a gun shop making money to run a business, you're a private seller who obviously thinks he's going fetch top dollar for his crap.
    I couldn't see paying more than 375 for the gun and maybe 3 mags... who the hell wants 14 mags and a shot up gun and your sweaty holster for 500 bucks?

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  13. You got your money out of the deal through the court system.. now it just looks like you're proud of that little set up you're trying to get rid of at a premium price.

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  14. Actually, the gun is free. Holster: $75'ish. Bladetech pouch: $50'ish. 14 mags @ $25: $350. Night sights: $110. All barely used. And if sold @ $500, I'm still out over $200 for this ordeal.

    If it doesn't sell, that's fine too. I considered the risk that I'd not recover a penny when I filed the small claims complaint. I've made up some of the loss with the court ruling, and hope to recover more.

    This is a good deal for someone with a working G36, or someone looking for a fun range gun who won't mind 2-3 malfunctions per 100 rounds.

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  15. garbage ammo, cute comment. A glock eats anything and loves it. I've taken my 21 and some of my 19's to multiple classes and shot many cases of whatever is the cheapest through 'em. I'd like to say no malfunctions but I shoot more than that; never would I say that the malfunction rate was even 1 in a 2,000. Whatever they sold you it wasn't a glock, it just looked like one.

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  16. I think 500 is a good deal. I wish I had some extra funds right now. I bet someone takes it off your hands soon. And by the way my hats off to you for your perseverance. The 36 has always had problems, that's why I carry the G30. Good luck.

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  17. A gun that cannot reliably shoot UMC or WWB is simply defective, end of story. I don't care for that ammo personally, but it's for reasons other than "will it reliably feed and fire".

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  18. I am sorry to say that there is a growing issue with any kind of real warranty. Warranties can and are written to protect the customer as well as the company.

    I have personally spent many wasted days, too many to count, on deaf warranty managers.

    Here is the scoop; There are defective items that are built and shipped every day, because the company gambles that just about everyone does not use the item to it's full potential. When a person actually does, the accusations and half truths fly.

    I have now chosen not to lose one more night of sleep on defective equipment. If it doesn't work, I don't complain, I don't keep it. Life is too short.

    I have had exactly two glocks in 16 years that did not work. They are both gone. I still have 8 Glock pistols in various calibers, they all work.

    Try to remember, you can't make someone do something they do not want to, and life will be a little more pleasing.

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  19. Wow. What a story. I'm sorry for the extensive hassle you went through. I also am a Glock owner (G34), and consider myself lucky to have had zero trouble with it, DESPITE the fact that I feed it "crap" ammo 100% of the time (what an idiotic thing to say!).

    Too often big companies have little or no incentive to make things right for the consumer. If Glock was really a stand-up company, they'd have replaced the weapon months ago, bypassing the need for you to take it to court. Asking for the gun back after it was all over was just salt in the wound, IMHO.

    I'm now in the market for a .45. Given the trouble you've had with it, there's no WAY I'd jump at your offer...and I don't think anyone else would either. I wasn't going to shop around for anything other than a Glock, but your story has made me widen my horizons.

    Congratulations, Glock, you went from an easy sell to a satisfied customer, to competing on even footing with 3 or 4 other manufacturers to get my business. Way to go.

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  20. Interesting story. Sounds like you did everything right.

    Regarding ammo, my G36 runs just fine on WWB.

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  21. I've got to say that I'm sorely disappointed in Glock's customer service.

    I'd expect this from others with notoriously crappy customer service (H&K, Taurus, Kahr), but not from Glock.

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  22. Interesting story. I bought a 36 back in 2001 & have had zero problems with it.

    That being said, I was planning on buying a 20sf in the coming weeks. Now, I will not. I will save up & buy a long slide 10mm made by another mfg.

    Glock will only do what's "right" (ie: admit there's a problem & fix the guns out there) when it becomes more expensive to them via lost sales rather than a recall.

    I will not buy anything bearing the Glock name until I see them fix this. I encourage everyone else to do the same.

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  23. Great web site and info.

    I bought my first Glock (G-19) last fall and it has been flawless. (My old dept uses Sig Sauers and I just wanted to try a Glock.)

    Traded a compact SigSauer 1911 for a Glock 36 yesterday. Hope I don't have these problems.

    However, I will earmark this site and keep track of thinks.

    Thanks for the info, Trooper Joe

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  24. Yeah, about that, I was at the range just yesterday with 4 jams in 4 mags... First round twice. My G36 was bought in Aug and I have had this problem ever since. I have tried 5 or six different ammos and have 4 mags one has a plus one Pearce grip on it. THEY ALL jam sooner or later and with any ammo. This gun has serious design problems. I getting ready to go to Glock and see what I can do. I will also contact the co. I bought it from and see if they will try to do the right thing and exchange it. As for everyone with thier stories about thier Glock 19s, 22s, 27s, 30s, yes we know they work, thats why everyone loves glock. But none of them have a single interchangeable part with a G36... My local Glock dealer, that all he sells, doesn't even carry the 36 b/c he hates it.

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  25. Chris, On a side note, I know you didnt get the chance to carry much, but how was the Crossbreed holster? I have considered it myself.

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  26. If you didn't take Glock's offer to have the pistol replaced with a new one (even a different model) then you were just like the thousands of other leeches and trying to make a quick buck from a manufacturer.

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  27. I bought my first Glock (G-19) last fall and it has been flawless. (My old dept uses Sig Sauers and I just wanted to try a Glock.)

    Traded a compact SigSauer 1911 for a Glock 36 yesterday. Hope I don't have these problems.

    However, I will earmark this site and keep track of thinks.

    Thanks for the info, Trooper Joe

    Update on my above postxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    First time on the range went through two mags of ball ammo with no problems. Then two more mags of 185 grn hp ammo (Remington I think), again no problems. Also seems quite accurate (just shooting cans in the snow).

    I must have got a good one...

    Trooper Joe

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  28. Any update from the Glocktalk member "John" ? Has he shot it? Update us please.........

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  29. Thank you for documenting your Glock G36 struggle so thoroughly. I'm personally going to avoid buying any of these problem G36/G30/G30SF/G29 problem pistols until there appears to be a legitimate resolution from Glock.

    There's just too many good guns out there to waste time sifting through duds.

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  30. I just Bought a G36 Couple weeks ago. My experince with this gun is no good. Magazine does not drop it spouse to I jammed on me twice. I think Glock should look in to the G36 models. I also have 21,30sf,23 they work flawlessly. I hate to deal with firearm makers they dont give a shit about us. My sig and even Keltec customer service better than Glock customer service.

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  31. I've never experienced any problems with Glocks but I know problems occur with anything. I've owned one Colt 1911 for over 25 years that has never been reliable. I take it to the range about once a year just to remind myself how much I hate it. I think I'll trade it for a G36--couldn't be THAT much worse.

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  32. Wow, that sucks, I own a Glock 22, never gave me problems, but I dont doubt your story. I owned a Springfield 1911 and a cheap Rock Island 1911, the Rock Island was far more reliable than the Springfield that I paid almost twice as much for. The Springfield jammed once or twice every 7-8 rounds, it didnt matter what ammo I used, and the Rock Island jammed about 2 times out of several hundred rounds. I think sometimes these companies make a shitty gun every now and then, but I think Glock should have done a better job in pleasing a customer. I should have sent my Springfield 1911 to the manufacturer, but I ended up selling it for a cheap price. At least companies like hi-point have a great warranty on them.

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  33. Any updates from "John"?

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  34. Please post a copy of your complaint, the final disposition, damages requested and awarded. This does not make total sense and is no where near the experiences I have had.

    Also, anytime I've called Glock I can reach them within a day or two?

    And, why would you wait 8 months for a repair and not have taken action sooner? This all just does nto make sense.

    I can't understand

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  35. Wow! What a messed up situation. Glock should have settled this without going to court. My 36 is flawless but now you got me wondering.

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  36. Hello everybody

    I live in Czech republic and have exactly the same issue with my g36.
    I claimed it, however, the distributor returned it to me with the same explanation as Chris described, i.e. meets factory specifics. Thus, it is clear Glock must be informed about the problem, but obviously trying to refuse its responsibility. Maybe due to unclear cause of the jamming. Moreover, as I am using ammunition from european producers, it is clear the ammo is not the root cause.

    I am going to claim it again tomorrow and this time will take this article with me to support my arguments.

    Thanks Chris for the patience and very detailed information.

    Regards
    Tomas

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  37. Good luck, Tomas.

    UPDATE:
    I met John, the buyer of my G36, last week on a visit to Kansas. We headed to the range and shot our 1911's and G30's and had a blast.

    John's report is extensive, and he has decided to post in at least two parts. The first part is coming soon.

    Thanks to all for your patience. The wait will be worth it.

    Chris

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  38. I bought a g36 when the model first came out. Had the same problem and traded it in, a very disappointed customer. It did feed +P hollow points best and I believe it to be because the round is shorter. Also I've heard these problems were due to a loose magazine well and that this has been fixed? None of my other glocks have ever malfunctioned and I'm thinking of getting another g36 but I might not because I'm still angry with glock over how they've handled the defect.

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  39. Your experience and the hearsay accounts of others are simply that - hearsay and anecdotal. I find your rush to small claims court remarkable, and I don't mean that as a compliment. Glocks are excellent pistols and while I'm certain there are problems with some, I think a call for a class action against them over the claim that the G36 is somehow known to be defective absurd. This is a sad commentary on what has become far too many people's knee-jerk solutions to being somehow dissatisfied - file a lawsuit. If this was a rational solution, all 1911 owners could easily claim similar harm since modern, high-tolerance 1911'a are notoriously quirky. I have no admiration for someone who whines to boards and courts when they feel they've been let down by an "evil corporation." You could have and should have sold the damn thing a long time ago, chalked it up to experience, acknowledged that while others had similar experiences this didn't necessarily make it a corporate conspiracy AND MOVED ON.

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    Replies
    1. i had similar problems early on, within a few hundred rounds with my 36, so i just got a round that feeds better up this excessively short and inclined barrel feed ramp; so i wanted hollow point effect but feeds like a full metal jacket... - CORBON POWERBALLS, no jams

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  40. This is why I own SIGs, H&Ks, and XDs (and a Glock 17 and 22).. I don't mind my Glocks, but they're nothing like my SIGs, HKs, or XDs...

    SIG P220 (West German)
    SIG P220R (West German)
    SIG P226 .40 (West German)
    SIG P225 9mm (West German)
    SIG SP2022 9mm
    SIG P239 9mm

    H&K P30 9mm
    H&K P7 9mm
    H&K USP .45

    Springfield XDM 9mm Two-Tone
    Springfield XD .40 Sub-Compact

    S&W 637-2 Airweight 38 Special

    Glock 17 4th Generation
    Glock 22 3rd Generation

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  41. I bought my Glock 36 three months ago and have put 500 rounds through it flawlessly (even the "crappy ammo"). I went and shot a hundred rounds off yesterday and encountered this problem for the first time. It happened a total of 9 times. I loved this gun as I was extremely accurate with it at many distances. It was also perfect for concealed carry, but now I would not trust it for anything. I would keep it as a range gun but it's not that great just for that as there is only a 6+1 round capacity. I will be in contact with Glock the first chance I get early this week. They have to be well aware of this issue by now. Regardless of Glock's other reliable guns, I am disappointed in them as a consumer. If there is a problem, that's fine. But don't ignore it, fix it.

    Good job Chris. I hope something gets resolved here. -Scott

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  42. My G36 was also a lemon. Every 2-3 magazines had a Stovepipe, FTF or extraction problem. Pick one! And everyone on Glock talk thought I was limp wristing. I had to inform everyone that I was a marksmanship instructor in the Marine Corps....so no....it was not limp wristing. I don't believe in that anyway.

    Its funny....I put mine up for sale on Glock talk as well and "john" wanted to buy mine as well. I ended up going with a G30 and its had no problems.

    I want to get another G36.....I just hope the next one works well. I really like the size of the weapon.

    Thanks for sharing your story here.

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  43. I just purchased a Glock 36 yesterday. Today I took it to the range and put 40 rounds through it. The VERY FIRST round I shot threw it, the casing got hung up. After I cleared it, it shot 3 more rounds fine until the 4th round got jammed. This was all with the very first clip.

    After that, almost every magazine I shot had at least 1 jam.

    Im going to call the gun shop tomorrow to see what I should do, but im extremely disappointed with my G36.

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  44. Hi,my name is sal, I buy a glock 36 6 rounds on june 2010, in my first shootin,on the fourt round the pistol was jamed and I think was a bad idea to purchase, a glock gun. and now I buy a springfiel .45 and is a real gun. and I extremely dissapointed with MY G36

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  45. Just found your Blog while research why my G36 is double feeding so much...sigh. There's nothing like losing money on a gun.

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  46. A friendly note from YouTube account kenfo0, (who has two friends since joining in March 2007) who didn't bother to follow the link from the video to this site:

    only a-holes don't allow comments on vids. the whole pt is to post vids and take flak.

    next, you clearly have no idea how to handle a weapon: with other people on the range and a "malfunction", you allowed the muzzle to pt across the range, not down. next, to clear the weapon, the FIRST thing to do is drop the mag, then cycle the slide. With these problems, it is hard to side with you. It looks as if you are TYRING to have a problem. I have run over 10k of +P thru a glock and had zero....ZERO issues. How do I know you didn't load a squib and put it in with the white box? how do I know you didn't store the white box ammo in a bucket of water, etc?

    Take the gun to a gunsmith, have him replicate the problem and fix it. Have him send both you and Glock a copy of the bill with an explanation. Then you can take them to court.

    ---

    There you go, Kenfo0. Comment posted, flak received. And you're the first to suggest I store my ammo in water! I'm glad Glock didn't suggest that in court!

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  47. I just found another G36 Malfunction thread at GlockTalk. Most are suggesting grip or stance are the guy's problem. A gentleman from the other side of the pond chimed in with this:

    "I have, as yet, failed to get anyone with a "good" G36 to demonstate that he can get it to misfeed by gripping or standing badly."

    The thread was started by a member who bought his G36 in August 2010.

    The post is titled: My new G36 had failure to eject - advice wanted.

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  48. Yeah, it's called "limp wristing" which is common in automatics that rely on gas operation or blowback to cycle the rounds. If you do not hold the gun with a firm grip to keep it steady while firing it, the gun won't cycle right and you'll get a jam. It happened to my dad when shooting his Glock 19 (9mm) and the guy at the range told him "don't limp wrist it" and the problem never happened again. It's a more pronounced issue if you use low grain (or light) bullets.

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  49. In other words the gun was not defective, the shooter was.

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  50. To the above people shouting, "Limp Wrist": I've owned 2 compact 1911s and 4 Glocks. I've never had a single jam in the 1911s and of the Glock models 19, 26, 27, I've had 1 FTE out of about 15,000 rounds and that was due to a bad casing. The Glock 36, however, jammed on me about every 10th round. It did perform slightly better with high power ammo but when my other Glocks and 45s never jam... Well, if the problems only happen with the 36 and nothing else, then it's the 36's fault and nothing else.
    To the people shouting, "My 36 never jams". Yeah, they aren't all identical as John's review points out.

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  51. Have any of you tried putting a heavier spring in the gun? I wonder if a heavier spring would solve the problem.

    I carry a 22 as my duty gun, own a 22, and a 24L, and have not ever encountered a problem.

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  52. Limp wristing will cause that malfunction ... so the problem is neither the gun or ammo, it is the shooter.

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  53. I have been following these posts, unfortunately late though. As an agency armorer, when you replace possible defective parts with newer factory ones, the weapon is back to OEM specs, but that does not mean it will operate correctly Several magazines should have been fired to determine if the problem was solved. Moreover, Glock Inc. will not shoot 500 rounds to check your weapon out nor any other manufacturer as far as I know, it is resource prohibitive. I know several of the techs you have mentioned and they are good thorough folks. I am not sticking up for Glock because I would not only have replaced the initial parts as you have stated, but also the bearing, bearing spring, and recoil guide assembly. If this would not have solved the problem, after firing the weapon with several mags, I would have replace the entire slide and barrel and checked to make sure the slide stop lever was not bent or improperly installed and more importantly the correct one installed since the G36 takes a different one all together. I do know that G36 magazine springs are weak and you can get FTF as I have experienced with mine. Springs need to be replaced every two years especially if you keep it loaded. Wolf makes some extra power springs and that usually solves the problem with FTF. However, that is the only problem that I have experienced with my G36 and others who use them for off-duty. I have used ball ammo (UMC, Remington, Federal, Speer) and our duty ammo is Speer Gold Dot. Never had a stovepipe or jam in hundreds of rounds. Nor has Glock informed us of any other problems with the G36. Sounds like you got the a lemon. My duty weapon a G21SF has performed flawlessly even after going though several instructor schools each school firing at least 900 rounds. But YMMV!

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  54. Chris's story is a carbon copy of the same issues with my Glock 36 and has been this way since I purchased it slightly used. Went to the range today and over 150 rounds run through the weapon, there were four miss-feeds exactly as described in John's report. I love the size, caliber, weight, and concealability of the weapon am going to give up on spending more money on the issue and cut my losses. Even though a long -time Glock fan, maybe it's time to revisit ole reliable, my 1911. In the meanwhile, I'll keep in touch with this site and continue waiting for Glock to wake up. Brian

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  55. I would not give up on the G36 entirely. For those who remember when the Beretta 96 came out, there was an issue with jams and FTF. Turns out it was the bullet ogive of the .40. Brian, I would be interesting in hearing more about your G36.

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  56. Hi. Thanks for the interest. I guess I'm going to have to go back to an old reliable like the G19. I don't want to since I am an old 45 ACP fan. I thought the G36 had all the features I could ask for but can't give up reliability for it.

    My feed issues are identical to the images above. A one-half ejected, spent casing and jammed ammo pressing from below.

    On another note, I can not use hollow point ammo since it gets caught on the sharp and short feed ramp. It was clear from the very beginning that only ball ammo would work.

    Thanks again, brian

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  57. Brian:
    Yes, the G19 is a fine pistol but even that one had it share of upgrades. The G36 is a bit quirky and the little pistol does have a sharp recoil. Thus a lot of muzzle flip can be contributing to ejection problems. Not that I am implying one is shooting "limp wrist." I've only seen a few lemons from Glock because they are pretty thorough about quality checks. I bought one back in 2003 and I shot around 250 rounds through mine all ball ammo at one setting and yes I had sore wrist and hands. Using Federal and Speer 230g ball, I had some issues with feeds on my G36. Magazine springs were the culprit. I changed out a few magazine springs and that cured the FTF issue. On the ones that I didn't change out, they would not feed correctly, regardless of type of ammo. The only ball ammo I have not shot out of mine is the Parvi, Wolf and PMC. They tend to shoot dirty and gunk the chamber up quickly. I know that for a fact because in my full size 21, those brands do that every time.

    With the ejection issue that is a bit perplexing. The first thing I would check out is to make sure the plunger bearing, bearing and plunger bearing spring are the correct ones and they are put in properly-metal to metal and plastic to plastic. I would also check to make sure the bearing head has not mushroomed or showing signs of being mushroomed A new pistol won't show this obviously. I would also make sure the bearing is the olive colored one, since this is the same ones used by all .45s. Again, if the pistol is new, I've never seen one put together wrong from Glock. I would also do a function check on the recoil spring. Strip the magazine out, double check to ensure it is not chambered and empty. with the pistol barrel pointed towards the ceiling, still empty and nothing chambered, pull the slide back and ride the slide forward half way until the barrel hood is close to being engaged and let the slide go. The slide should snap into battery. If not, you've got a weak recoil spring. It's like doing a press check. If it slide is somewhat sluggish, most definitely the recoil spring. Plus the recoil spring is cheap to replace anyhow. When loading the magazine, I would also tap the spine of the magazine against something hard to ensure all the cases are towards back of the magazine spine.

    If it was my pistol, I would put at least 250 rounds through it with a quality ball ammo, Speer Lawman, Federal, Remington. If it still is not extracting correctly after several hundred rounds, I would replace the mag springs, plunger, bearing, bearing spring, extractor, and recoil spring. Remember, when shooting you may have to grip the pistol a little differently to minimize muzzle flip on this smaller Glock.

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  58. Thank you visiting the site and for your comments above. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

    The question for John: has he done any more tests? The last time I spoke with him he said one of his next tests was going to be a Wolf spring.

    A question above: why did I wait 8 months? See the Supporting Document at the left called Timeline. If you can imagine, Glock and I were in constant contact so time went by with activity - not a void of activity. In hindsight, knowing that their preference was for me to give up rather than them replacing a defective product, I would have acted faster. Others have criticized me for acting too fast too...

    Another question above asked for the court document. Just imagine a single sheet of paper that said "Plaintiff Wins". Small Claims doesn't waste time with anything else.

    John's and my email addresses are at the top-left of the site. If you have a specific question that doesn't included "limp wrist" in it, you can send direct to get a faster answer. Or post your question here, then send an email and we'll post our answer. The more communication, the better.

    Have a great 2011! Chris

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  59. Hi Eric, Appreciate the time and good advice. I will do all that you prescribed and see how it performs. I love the weapon and willing to try and make it work. Thanks again! Brian

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  60. I went to the internet to find out if others were having issues, and it appears so. I had a total of six jams out of a hundred rounds yesterday. I have always had the occasional issue, but nothing like that. I too was planning on starting to carry mine concealed, but now I can't trust it. Thanks for posting all the good info.

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  61. I made a couple of adjustments, and so far so good. After 150 rounds at the range yesterday, not one FTF/FTE! The first thing I did was ditch the Pierce +1 mag extensions. Second I switched to Winchester White Box 185gr FMJ rounds. I figured these more closely resembled the JHP you would use for self-defense anyway. I was pleased with the results.

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  62. I will never own or use any Glock.
    Needs NY1 or NY2 trigger.
    Needs aftermarket manual safety.
    No reloads to avoid a chamber burst.
    No +p to avoid a chamber burst.

    The g36 is a compact; might be part of the problem.
    A shorter slide changes dynamics.
    The extractor better be perfect in form and position.

    I'll get a Bersa Pro.

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  63. I know I'm late to this party but I wanted to comment on this video.

    First of all, Chris, THANK YOU for posting this video. I wish more people that had problems that the manufacturer won't resolve would speak out and post videos like this to squash any rumors, speculations or whatnots. I love my Glocks, and I swear my life by them. But when there is a problem with one (or all) it should be addressed.

    Secondly- by first glance I would say the Glock was having extractor issues. The extractor wasn't grabbing the back of the casing consistently; leaving an empty cartridge in the chamber (thus inducing the malfunction). My second guess would be the guide rod. I've been hearing reports that the new Glock RTFs are having problems as well (mostly stove pipes) due to the spring being too tight and short-stroking the slide. Without inspecting the ammunition (especially the spent casing that didn't eject) or the firearm, personally, that is all I can conclude.

    It is interesting about how Glock couldn't tell you a straight answer as too exactly how many rounds they fired through your firearm. Saying 500 rounds in court is like a mechanic admitting that he test drove a car to another city instead of taking it around the block. Each round fired through your gun (just like millage on a car) depreciates the value of your gun...it is interesting that they would say more than 100 rounds. Maybe they just fired off a mag and called it good then filled in some zeros? Who knows for sure, but they should have made it right instead of just saying "it's within spec" and called it good.

    But then again, Glock has always been good to me. So maybe you're the one who is lying? But for what gain? Who knows.

    Last notes..."limp wristing" clearly isn't a problem and neither is the ammo. A few suggestions though-

    1) You kind of lean back when you shoot, try leaning forward. Bend your knees and hunch forward a little bit (as if you are holding a punching bag for a boxer). I'm guessing that you are "cross-eye dominate" (right handed, but shoot right-eyed) am I correct?

    2) It appears as though you made the video in an indoor range...on line with other shooters, am I correct? If so, never, ever, ever point a firearm towards another person. Especially a loaded one! Remember your firearm rules:

    *Treat all firearms as if they are loaded
    *Never point a firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy
    *Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire
    *Be aware of your target, what is behind it and beyond it

    3) Don't let us internet jockeys tell you what to do with your life.

    Hope that got a smile on ya...anyhoot, stay shooting and keep up the good fight. We need more sheepdogs to watch the herds, especially in the upcoming months. Practice more and remember the reason(s) why you decided to carry a gun in the first place.

    ;)

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  64. Bah...I meant "right handed but left-eyed"...oh well.

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  65. Actually, the gun is free. Holster: $75'ish... I'll take the free gun, dont need the rest

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  66. Try slower burning powder...

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    Replies
    1. Desert eagles have s similar problem

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  67. In the numerous discussions with Glock it was said that either ammo, grip tightness and/or magazines could be the reason for the malfunctions. http://www.kingglock.com/Products.aspx?CAT=4298

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  68. Nah... it's people hitting the slide stop OR people oiling the extractor. (ie. people who can't read)

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  69. It's sad that a company can lose a lawsuit because some idiot refused to rtfm.

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  71. Just took my 36 to the range first time, bought it used about 5 years ago in like new shape. Using pmc 230 grain fmj loads. FtE issues on third round only with one mag, kind of strange. Misc. Fte with other mag. NOT HAPPY. Reading about all of the possible causes and solutions now. Not looking forward to all of the things i need to do. Just wanted a reliable semi auto ccw that i could trust. The mags do have Pearce grip extensions so I'll have to remove those first, try different ammo and springs, etc. Hope i can get it straightened out. It is a perfect to me ccw choice if i can get it to eject properly.

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